Before I landed here, I spent months researching on leather forums to research from people that love to work with leather and what their favorite machines were. I also spent months looking on craigslist local and craigslist search. I found a brand new econsew walking foot machine this way, for 350.00 because a son was selling it for her mother, who wanted to get into making bags but gave up. When I got it the tension on the bottom was full of thread and it was jammed. Thankfully a friend who worked in upholstery helped to tweak it and I’m still trying to find feet for it. I’ve been told it’s discontinued but I think that cannot be. I need to add a servo motor because it is a speed freak. I found a old singer post bed the same way that a redwing shoe employee was selling. I got that for 450.00. This is really unheard of. Hence shopping for months. If you don’t mind looking online for a few minutes a day, you can find a really good deal but also. I have put money into these machines to get them working and set up, but to me it is worth it. My cylinder sewing machine I bought from Steve at Leather machine co. He is great. I am making my last payment this month and it comes with a dvd, and the support is there. There are many videos online also. It is a class 4, it comes with a table to make it a flat bed also. I bought all the feet for it also. It is a steep learning curve learning these machines for me. My Christmas gift from my husband was to get some lessons for my new machine and hand sewing etc. It comes down to support in my opinion because industrials hold their value. If you have a repair person lined up or know someone or are handy you can explore used online and get a very good deal. For my class 4 I wanted a package deal with other things I needed and I wanted support. If I need my machines fixed right now its a four hour drive with the machine! Happy hunting and I hope this helps. I know you can start smaller, and maybe someone else has a story that works better also.